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Subject:
Small Xlib replacement
From: Greg Haerr ####@####.#### Date: 8 Sep 1999 16:14:56 -0000 Message-Id: <01BEF9E2.55AFC3E0.greg@censoft.com> : I know. I was talking about Xlib too. We did consider changing the : function names to closer match X, but it might confuse people into : thinking that Nano-X is supposed to be a faithful clone of X, which it : isn't. Perhaps the name should be changed Nano-Y then. It's already confusing. Nano-X implies a smaller version of X. Most newbie questions on this list seem to want a small X. There are a lot of things which can be done (and are done) more : simply than how X does it. That's a for sure ;-) : : > The point is that the nano-X api is *already* Xlib compliant, but noone : > realizes it, and that further slows development. I'm not suggesting that : > the API has to remain Xlib compatible, but when you've already got 90% of : > your API compliant, why not? : : It isn't anywhere near that close, Check out each function and it's arguments. Although the types are typedef'd, you'll find that very many are exactly the same, of course lacking the Display * arg. In any case, if folks are looking for a small, highly functional Xlib api that is *much* smaller than Xlib, but performs very similarly, I'll write it. I estimate that I could have it *finished* in about a week. This would allow the Gtk etc guys to get their stuff running very quickly, and then we could concentrate on the harder aspects that the engine doesn't currently support, like off-screen pixmap drawing. The idea would be to implement the Xlib api quickly using exactly the same parms as documented, until the engine or Xlib design required (because of good design considerations, like size) a change. This would end up creating a large set of compatible routines, and a smaller set of incompatible routines. Of course, anyone's free to add new api entry points to their heart's content. Most of the initial engine work is completed, as evidenced by the MicroWindows demo. As I've mentioned before, the biggest engine problem is lack of offscreen drawing support, which involves some larger architecture/driver changes. Greg | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Subject:
Re: Small Xlib replacement
From: Alex Holden ####@####.#### Date: 8 Sep 1999 16:30:22 -0000 Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9909081720430.23796-100000@www.linuxhacker.org> On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Greg Haerr wrote: > Perhaps the name should be changed Nano-Y then. It's > already confusing. Nano-X implies a smaller version of X. Most > newbie questions on this list seem to want a small X. The idea was that it does the equivalent of the X server for the NanoGUI system (in retrospect probably a bad idea). It might be better to forget the Nano-X name and call it NanoGUI instead. Or nanoserver and nanolib. --------------- Linux- the choice of a GNU generation. -------------- : Alex Holden (M1CJD)- Caver, Programmer, Land Rover nut, Radio Ham : -------------------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Subject:
Re: Small Xlib replacement
From: "Bradley D. LaRonde" ####@####.#### Date: 8 Sep 1999 16:36:01 -0000 Message-Id: <011a01befa16$c46217a0$b8119526@ltc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Greg Haerr ####@####.#### To: 'Alex Holden' ####@####.#### Cc: Vidar Hokstad ####@####.#### ####@####.#### Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 12:10 PM Subject: Small Xlib replacement > In any case, if folks are looking for a small, highly functional > Xlib api that is *much* smaller than Xlib, but performs very similarly, > I'll write it. I estimate that I could have it *finished* in about a week. > This would allow the Gtk etc guys to get their stuff running very quickly, > and then we could concentrate on the harder aspects that the engine > doesn't currently support, like off-screen pixmap drawing. I think you hit the nail right on the head. I'm at the point in my current Linux-MIPS project where I need something just like this. I think that you will be providing a *major* service to many people by doing this. I highly encourage you to proceed with your plan. How can I help? I'm not a Xlib programmer at all, but maybe getting your work running in my Linux-MIPS project will be a good test. What else can I do? Regards, Brad | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Subject:
Re: Small Xlib replacement
From: "Bradley D. LaRonde" ####@####.#### Date: 8 Sep 1999 16:39:39 -0000 Message-Id: <012301befa17$46a3e310$b8119526@ltc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Holden ####@####.#### To: Greg Haerr ####@####.#### Cc: Vidar Hokstad ####@####.#### ####@####.#### Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 12:30 PM Subject: Re: Small Xlib replacement > On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Greg Haerr wrote: > > Perhaps the name should be changed Nano-Y then. It's > > already confusing. Nano-X implies a smaller version of X. Most > > newbie questions on this list seem to want a small X. > > The idea was that it does the equivalent of the X server for the NanoGUI > system (in retrospect probably a bad idea). It might be better to forget > the Nano-X name and call it NanoGUI instead. Or nanoserver and nanolib. What is NanoGUI intented to be used for? What is it the equivalent of? Or, maybe better, what will it replace? Regards, Brad | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Subject:
Re: Small Xlib replacement
From: Alex Holden ####@####.#### Date: 8 Sep 1999 16:44:17 -0000 Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9909081740180.23796-100000@www.linuxhacker.org> On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Bradley D. LaRonde wrote: > What is NanoGUI intented to be used for? What is it the equivalent of? Or, > maybe better, what will it replace? The GUIs of Photon, Epoc, PalmOS, Wince, etc. as well as the multitude of embedded UIs you find in things like photocopiers (more and more of them are being built with enough processor power and a good enough display to be able to run Linux, ucLinux or ELKS and a tiny GUI). --------------- Linux- the choice of a GNU generation. -------------- : Alex Holden (M1CJD)- Caver, Programmer, Land Rover nut, Radio Ham : -------------------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Subject:
Re: Small Xlib replacement
From: "Bradley D. LaRonde" ####@####.#### Date: 8 Sep 1999 16:46:54 -0000 Message-Id: <015701befa18$4b42a310$b8119526@ltc.com> ----- Original Message ----- From: Alex Holden ####@####.#### To: Bradley D. LaRonde ####@####.#### Cc: Greg Haerr ####@####.#### ####@####.#### Sent: Wednesday, September 08, 1999 12:44 PM Subject: Re: Small Xlib replacement > On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Bradley D. LaRonde wrote: > > What is NanoGUI intented to be used for? What is it the equivalent of? Or, > > maybe better, what will it replace? > > The GUIs of Photon, Epoc, PalmOS, Wince, etc. as well as the multitude of > embedded UIs you find in things like photocopiers (more and more of them > are being built with enough processor power and a good enough display to > be able to run Linux, ucLinux or ELKS and a tiny GUI). So one would have to write specifically to it, as one writes to Gnome or KDE? Regards, Brad | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Subject:
Re: Small Xlib replacement
From: Alan Cox ####@####.#### Date: 8 Sep 1999 16:48:53 -0000 Message-Id: <E11Okla-0002Ut-00@the-village.bc.nu> > > embedded UIs you find in things like photocopiers (more and more of them > > are being built with enough processor power and a good enough display to > > be able to run Linux, ucLinux or ELKS and a tiny GUI). > > So one would have to write specifically to it, as one writes to Gnome or > KDE? Neither. Gnome is built on gtk (which is window system independant (ish)) which is built on gdk which is window system specific. So you port gdk you get gnome on it - ditto Qt andd KDE. In general both gnome and kde are a bit big for small pdas. Fltk looks more promising | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Subject:
Re: Small Xlib replacement
From: Alex Holden ####@####.#### Date: 8 Sep 1999 16:55:06 -0000 Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.4.04.9909081748410.23796-100000@www.linuxhacker.org> On Wed, 8 Sep 1999, Bradley D. LaRonde wrote: > > The GUIs of Photon, Epoc, PalmOS, Wince, etc. as well as the multitude of > > embedded UIs you find in things like photocopiers (more and more of them > > are being built with enough processor power and a good enough display to > > be able to run Linux, ucLinux or ELKS and a tiny GUI). > So one would have to write specifically to it, as one writes to Gnome or > KDE? Not really, as you could theoretically port GDK, Glib, GTK+, and Gnome to NanoGUI (probably without a huge amount of work) and then be able to compile Gnome programs to run on NanoGUI. IE. Gnome and KDE are at a higher layer than we're talking about. But yes, you would need to either port the particular toolkit used to write the applications you're interested in to NanoGUI or if it doesn't use a toolkit (most do), port it directly to the NanoGUI API itself which, as Greg is saying, isn't a million miles away from the X API. --------------- Linux- the choice of a GNU generation. -------------- : Alex Holden (M1CJD)- Caver, Programmer, Land Rover nut, Radio Ham : -------------------- http://www.linuxhacker.org/ -------------------- | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Subject:
RE: Small Xlib replacement
From: Greg Haerr ####@####.#### Date: 8 Sep 1999 16:57:50 -0000 Message-Id: <01BEF9E8.4C8A1800.greg@censoft.com> On Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:40 AM, Alan Cox ####@####.#### wrote: : > > embedded UIs you find in things like photocopiers (more and more of them : > > are being built with enough processor power and a good enough display to : > > be able to run Linux, ucLinux or ELKS and a tiny GUI). : > : > So one would have to write specifically to it, as one writes to Gnome or : > KDE? : : Neither. Gnome is built on gtk (which is window system independant (ish)) which : is built on gdk which is window system specific. So you port gdk you get : gnome on it - ditto Qt andd KDE. : : In general both gnome and kde are a bit big for small pdas. Fltk looks more : promising : Gtk is built on top of Xlib, right? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Subject:
RE: Small Xlib replacement
From: Greg Haerr ####@####.#### Date: 8 Sep 1999 16:58:22 -0000 Message-Id: <01BEF9E8.5A7BBC20.greg@censoft.com> On Wednesday, September 08, 1999 10:40 AM, Alan Cox ####@####.#### wrote: : > > embedded UIs you find in things like photocopiers (more and more of them : > > are being built with enough processor power and a good enough display to : > > be able to run Linux, ucLinux or ELKS and a tiny GUI). : > : > So one would have to write specifically to it, as one writes to Gnome or : > KDE? : : Neither. Gnome is built on gtk (which is window system independant (ish)) which : is built on gdk which is window system specific. So you port gdk you get : gnome on it - ditto Qt andd KDE. : : In general both gnome and kde are a bit big for small pdas. Fltk looks more : promising : Whoops - I meant Gdk is built on Xlib, right? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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