nanogui: Thread: W Window system?

On Mon, 8 May 2000, Murphy Chen wrote:

> > I think it would be worthwhile to look at the Yopy web-browser -- it seems
> > more advanced than Wetscape. I haven't had the chance to actually use the
> > Yopy development tools, anyone else?
> 
> 	Which browser does Yopy use?

I believe it uses a browser that the Yopy people wrote. I encourage you to
look at the Yopy developer website @:
http://www.gmate.co.kr/expert/index.html

Thanks,
Vasant.

: I think it would be worthwhile to look at the Yopy web-browser -- it seems
: more advanced than Wetscape. I haven't had the chance to actually use the
: Yopy development tools, anyone else?

Is the Yopy web-browser source open?  Where is it?  Also,
the W system is black and white, with Yopy's changes still not
integrated for color...

Regards,

Greg

On Sun, 7 May 2000, Greg Haerr wrote:

> : I think it would be worthwhile to look at the Yopy web-browser -- it seems
> : more advanced than Wetscape. I haven't had the chance to actually use the
> : Yopy development tools, anyone else?
> 
> Is the Yopy web-browser source open?  Where is it?  Also,
> the W system is black and white, with Yopy's changes still not
> integrated for color...

I believe it's open source, but again Yopy Devl Agreement says for use
only if the target is a Yopy. I wonder how useful making it open source
is if you can't use it where you like(or maybe it's only that way if you
use the toolkit?). 

W itself I think is somewhat behind the times, the Yopy
ver however is color and the Yopy people claim to be committed to open
source.

I think they have a mailing list (which I am not a part of as of yet), but
the matter of what can be used where merits further investigation. Since I
don't work for the Yopy people nor am I affiliated with them in anyway, I
too am at a loss for answers.

Thanks,
Vasant.

>From: Vasant Ramasubramanian ####@####.####
>CC: ####@####.####
>Subject: Re: W Window system?
>Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 23:47:33 -0500 (CDT)
>
>
>
>On Mon, 8 May 2000, Murphy Chen wrote:
>
> > > I think it would be worthwhile to look at the Yopy web-browser -- it 
>seems
> > > more advanced than Wetscape. I haven't had the chance to actually use 
>the
> > > Yopy development tools, anyone else?
> >
> > 	Which browser does Yopy use?
>
>I believe it uses a browser that the Yopy people wrote. I encourage you to
>look at the Yopy developer website @:
>http://www.gmate.co.kr/expert/index.html
>

I have downloaded the Yope toolkit, and the browser that I saw
there was WetScape. Maybe I missed something.

Rosimildo.






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> I believe it's open source, but again Yopy Devl Agreement says for use
> only if the target is a Yopy. I wonder how useful making it open source
> is if you can't use it where you like(or maybe it's only that way if you
> use the toolkit?). 

if its YOPY only it is not open source.

> 

: Though I was curious about the GPLing of W windows(and Yopy's possible
: infringement), I was also curious what the developers on the this mailing
: list think about the technical capabilities of W and it's bearing on
: Microwindows / NanoGUI.
: 
: The screen shots of the Yopy in action did show a Win9x/NT/CE like
: interface (eeww) but it did seem to have nice things like dialog boxes,
: buttons, etc.

I think that W is interesting because it has been chosen by a company
to host the graphics runtime for a Linux based PDA.  I have reviewed
W, albeit a little quickly, and here is my assessment:

    o W is an older technology, and was mostly completed in 1996.
Although it does have some things that Microwindows doesn't, like
pie, arc and chord, it lacks any color (this has yet to be back-contributed
by Yopy) and runs only on mono or 8bpp systems.  W does not
have a sophisticated design in regards to screen, mouse and kbd drivers,
and many routines are duplicated for the w2xlib (W to Xlib) layer, 
which enables W to run on X.  The architecture doesn't allow for exact
duplication under X, instead, for instance, the entire pie routine is replaced.
W's driver architecture is ill-suited towards adding the 1 thru 32 bpp
framebuffer drivers that will be required to run on arbitrary embedded
linux installations.

    o W does have quite a few good sample programs, as well as some
very interesting usable examples, including testing routines for most of
it's drawing functions, as well as an included html browser.  Microwindows
could definitely use some help in this area.

    o W is designed as yet-another-api (YAA), while Microwindows
attempts to model existing APIs more closely.  This means that bringing
up external widget sets like gdk and fltk are more work, although W
includes a widget set, and Microwindows does not.

Overall, I am impressed with what W has been able to accomplish,
by including a usable widget set internally, and having many example
programs.  However, I'm still fighting to try to get it running on my
system, and haven't successfully got past that point yet, so I can't
actually use it.  Also, development seems to have stopped for
two years except for extremely recently, and all the original
developers have resigned from the project.


: 
: As I understand it, FLTK and GTK are being ported to MWindows? (These will
: support the wonderful widgets we all so desire?).

Yep.  I have arranged some $$ to help finance some porting 
projects for the fltk and gtk+/gdk widgets, so I'm going to be
able to actually pay people to work on some projects ;-)


 W doesn't seem to have
: this "flexibility" to use different widgets? Comments?

true


Regards,

Greg

: Where does it say that you can only target a Yopy device?


If I'm not mistaken, the GPL only states that a developer has
to make available the source code to anybody that the developer
delivers binaries to.  In Yopy's case, that would be the customer.

So, perhaps they are legal by stating that by using the version
of W that they enhanced, you must develop for Yopy, since
you must be a customer...  Ok, maybe that doesn't make 
much sense...

Regards,

Greg

> So, perhaps they are legal by stating that by using the version
> of W that they enhanced, you must develop for Yopy, since
> you must be a customer...  Ok, maybe that doesn't make 
> much sense...

No the GPL says 'no additional restrictions'. Its one of those wonderful
clauses that has lawyers running for miles ;)

> > So, perhaps they are legal by stating that by using the version
> > of W that they enhanced, you must develop for Yopy, since
> > you must be a customer...  Ok, maybe that doesn't make
> > much sense...
>
> No the GPL says 'no additional restrictions'. Its one of those wonderful
> clauses that has lawyers running for miles ;)

yep, they distribute the W windows library in their developer's kit, and hence
they need to provide the source to this (which they don't), and cannot place
additional restrictions. they mey however place restrictions on their own
standalone code that doesnt link with W windows (if W windows is GPL and not
LGPL - if it's LGPL they may place restrictions on all their yopy-specific
programs, as long as none of these are derived from L/GPL code.

right?

so the only question is, who's going to go and spank their little botties?

Rob

Hi all,
  The XLinux company use W window in their QUARK Linux. The tech-manager said this on COMDEX 2000 in Beijing, China last month. QUARK Linux is a PDA OS that will be announced soon. Their Web site is still old. http://www.xlinux.com 

Regards,
Guo